Ravana: an explanation

[Church]

I'm not getting back to great depths with whole argument of how this should be done. 90% of the threads are closed. That's just the way it's been on this forum, and it's just that simple. I'm not going to ask every writer to go through all of their threads and add [solo] to them, but I will ask that any threads which are open be marked as such, since there are so few of them.

Roleplay [OOC]
This section is for roleplay posts, broken down into different locations. Feel free to participate in any threads marked as OPEN; if the thread doesn't have a tag, please contact the OP before posting.

This has been added here before this thread even cropped up to lessen the confusion for newcommers and returners. And since we should all be reading the Etiquette section of the board when we first sign up, this should no longer be a problem.
The fact of the matter is it's never been an official rule and I was simply pointing out that asking a player first would provide better results than the possibility of having the post deleted from that thread upon request of the first poster. And that after being asked by the first poster to delete that post multiple times, Ravana's player should have complied with that, rather than refusing outright just because 'my character is an asshole.' You, yourself, are not your character. Don't be an asshole.


Now to Journal posts. It's different considering I'm not controlling Ravana players CONTENT. I'm not telling him what he can write or what his character can do, I'm asking him as a writer and not his character to avoid placing his writing where people don't want it.
Do I agree with being able to bitch about other chars in a journal? Yes and no. Yes because that's what people do, and no because crossing still happens whether we say it does or not. Maybe what that character has wrote about your character is untrue and other writers read it, and that shapes how their character then interacts with your character. It sucks and it shouldn't happen, but people bitch and lie and moan about people in journals in real life. Characters bitch and lie and moan about other characters.

But that's a completely different issue, all the same.

[Ravana]

Wow! For some reason I thought this thread was dead!

@Adam: thanks for the invite, you may come to regret it
*waves at Kenna*
*waves at Michelle*
Been a while! @Kenna: congrats!

Although I haven't replied, I have been thinking about this a fair bit. I really don't think this is a question of quality of writing - it was good before, it is now. It is perhaps more artful now but it's always easier to write when you know you won't have 57 varieties of vampire stomping your ass while the human sleeps for every slightest misspoken word in a public place. As this for me is the epitome of the change over the last 10 years: back then RBC was unashamedly a Player v Player (PvP) game to it's very core, with all the general insanity that goes with that. I've ummm played quite a few other ones since and the ethos is the same: ANYTHING goes. Any slight advantage you can take by squeezing the game mechanics or psyching your opponents in a public forum, you take it. You slag and sledge and pick fights when you are strong, you keep your head down and build when you are weak. This is why people played it. Well it's why I played it. That addictive rush of putting together a secret coalition, then mouthing off to a braggart in a forum for them to come charging in. By the morning they are erased. Completely. I just had a rush of adrenalin THINKING about it.

So in the old days "intruding on peoples thoughts" (aka posting uninvited) would be dealt with by a kicking - that's what I fully expected to happen to Ravana. He's a down and out - in one of the deleted posts I made it clear it wouldn't be the first time. Looking at somebody funny would be dealt with by a kicking. Saying hello to someone's wife without grovelling suitably would be dealt with by a kicking. Getting out of bed in the morning if you were mouthy n00b would be dealt with by a kicking (I know all aboout this one...). Stealing someone's eyebrows, would be dealt with.... ok you get the picture.

What I now see before me now is a PvE game (Player vs Enemy) where for the most part players collaborate against a common enemy. It's no longer the rule of the schoolyard, survival of the fittest. Before I returned here I had never been asked to delete a post in almost 40 years of roleplaying (I am going to equate deleting a post with being asked to take back an action in the pre-internet days ). Hence my reluctance.

For me this change reduces the game to a pointless waste of my time. So as an individual, I have 2 choices: either go back to what I was doing before and wander off or I try to shove the community back in the direction that is fun for me. I am going to take the view that the latter is worthwhile and I can always take the first option if it doesn't work out. I am going to assert that while this community is in any way connected to the Vampires! game board it remains a PvP game and I shall treat it as such. So if you do want to shut Ravana up, I suggest killing him. Otherwise I shall continue to flout convention.

[Meta]

No one is telling Ravana to shut up. Everyone is telling you to just... ask.

Writing with others is technically PvP but I'm not the one fighting you.
Lilly is not the one fighting you. You need to stop fighting us because it sounds very much like you're fusing IC and OOC ways of doing things.
To put it blatantly, if storming into solo RP's and refusing to take your posts away after being asked by the OP multiple times to cease and desist, this is not the forum for you.
If you continue to post in threads that are solo RPs and the OP asks me to remove it, I will.

To put it in gamer terms since that appears to be what you understand;
If someone is playing WOW in a PVE/PVP server it is THEIR choice on whether they want their character to enter a PVP area, no one elses.
This isn't Dark Souls. You can't force people to join your game, so dont. Hell, even Dark Souls lets you say no, and it doesn't make you if you do.

- Tex (Church) [I can't change accounts right now]

[Ravana]

WoW isn't a PvP game - it has PvP elements but it's quintessentially PvE. RBC is very different - the whole gameboard is PvP and was intended as such from the outset. There is nowhere anyone is safe other than in shadows (and that's not THAT safe). So no PvE at all and the community used to reflect that. There is now dissonance between the community and the underlying game. Perhaps the community should split off and become RP only? Otherwise I shall continue to write my gameboard actions as RPs, if not here then elsewhere

Re. Dark Souls: When I played Dark Souls through I was continually obliterated by that faction that goes nuts every time you walk in the woods (can't remember the name of the area or the faction now). Maybe the recent remaster changed it but Dark Souls was proper hard PvP because, like RBC, there was never any fairness to it. Those 27 guys all whaling on you at the same time were much higher level - totally unfair but if you don't like it you don't play it. It took me about 9 hours to get through that one small area and I only did it by working out what hours of the day and night these bastards kept and slipped through while the players were mostly sleeping . EDIT: which incidentally was a technique the player of UnicornDream taught me in RBC. You CAN learn useful life skills here

[Meta]

WoW isn't a PvP game - it has PvP elements but it's quintessentially PvE. RBC is very different - the whole gameboard is PvP and was intended as such from the outset. There is nowhere anyone is safe other than in shadows (and that's not THAT safe). So no PvE at all and the community used to reflect that. There is now dissonance between the community and the underlying game. Perhaps the community should split off and become RP only? Otherwise I shall continue to write my gameboard actions as RPs, if not here then elsewhere

Re. Dark Souls: When I played Dark Souls through I was continually obliterated by that faction that goes nuts every time you walk in the woods (can't remember the name of the area or the faction now). Maybe the recent remaster changed it but Dark Souls was proper hard PvP because, like RBC, there was never any fairness to it. Those 27 guys all whaling on you at the same time were much higher level - totally unfair but if you don't like it you don't play it. It took me about 9 hours to get through that one small area and I only did it by working out what hours of the day and night these bastards kept and slipped through while the players were mostly sleeping .

Neutrality, Battle Cloak (sort of), Ghosting, and yeah, staying in shadows. I'm saying you can do that PvP stuff in chats, but not here without permission from the OP. That's all I'm saying.
Writers ARE open to writing PvP in their thread s if asked or if the thread is already open, but times HAVE changed. You can say we've gone all vanilla in the PvP aspect if you like, but we do enjoy it on occasion.

As for Dark Souls, no one makes you go into the forest, either. I'm shite at PvP on that game though so I just don't bother.

This isn't about what your character can and can't do. This is just about courtesy from you as the writer to not force yourself on others writing if they don't want it. (Ty)

[Meta]

Edited a bit at the bottom

[Meta]

I do play Ark Survival though, so I know slipping in and killing everyone while the players sleep is a thing and I do enjoy it. But Ark wasn't an RP game when I played it. Being able to RP effectively and without stress - writing is stressful enough sometimes okay - with other people takes communication.

[Katelyn]

No one wants Ravana to stop being Ravana. Most people, in fact, love a good enemy to have.

People write solo rps for different reasons - some to get more in depth with their character, some to practice their character, some to just get out an experience they had on their own - hell, there's even a thread for mini rps where it's just about singular experiences - and some people do it simply so they can write without the pressure of having to write WITH someone, but want to do it in a public space so that they can get feedback.

No one is asking you to change your character. At all. It is simply being asked that you be sure the original poster is okay with you adding into their story line. Writing is hard. Writing is passionate. Writing isn't always for others to tag into, even if it's in a public forum. Chats? Have at it - it's a fucking free-for-all.

People are also not trying to run you off the game - I promise. As much as we all have had some rough experiences OOC, and while I'm sure this was a rough experience, that's no one's goal here. The community will always have its ups and downs, but more people are trying to bring the community together as writers than ever before. This is purely about asking first.

Kind of like with godmodding. It was never okay to do, and never considered okay, even in chats. There's always a way to leave room in which people can write, as they'd like to. Simply ask. 9 times out of ten, you'll get a yes. And if not, you'll likely get the equivalent of 'sure, but can we move it elsewhere, i'd like this thread to remain how it is'.


eta - Church's writer has said all this, I do believe. She's not trying to be your enemy here. She's just doing her job and trying to explain it the best way possible. Just.. throwing that out there? idfk.

double up that eta, yuh-yeah - There isn't a dissonance. We all know the game, and the basis of it, and what it is - we also know how boring it got to write the same things over and over. RB writers expanded upon that game. It's still there - there's people writing about attacks and things in the game. It's simply been expanded enough to be a writable thing now. Character ran into a hunter? We write about it. Taking a transit to the other side of town? It's been written on. We can say it's PvP over and over, and sure, it is. We've gone further than that, though. It's CvC. We've been able to step back enough to still enjoy the aspects of the game how it is, and still be able to create and enjoy ourselves with other writers. The game is still 100% here, in all it's click-grid glory.

[Ravana]

@Meta: Very well put! I guess that sums it up, I like my RP PvP but most others on Abantiquo prefer it PvE. So I guess I need to go and start a PvP RP forum to see if there's anyone else who feels the same way - not sure I have a title (Fight Club's taken right?) but I do have a sub-title ("No soliloquys" )

The gameboard will always be PvP of course but I suppose there is no obligation to RP with someone who's beating you up (and there never was)

[Azara]

Most every Discord sever is PvP tho, so I’m not sure what you’re griping about - if you want PvP, hit someone up on Discord, write it out, then post it.

I’m genuinely not sure what the issue is here. There are tons of people willing to RP, just not in journal/solo threads. If you want to create a derivative thread off the original, no one is saying you can’t do that.

We’re not saying you can’t start a new thread and tag a poster in it.

We’re not saying you can’t use existing threads as jumping points.

We’re not saying you can’t write PvP.

We’re literally just saying “don’t do this one thing* out of courtesy for other writers” - writers, not characters.

Personally, I’m happy to write any of my characters beating the crap out of Ravana if that’s what you want? Like cool, I’m up for that. Just pick your poison, and we can go to town.



*thing = post in solo threads.


EDITED for clarity