Consensus Gentium Debate: Should newer citizens be treated the same as any elders

[Ezra]

In short: Retweet Vex & Seyda.

In long: Powers DO NOT make a person. I think everyone deserves a baseline respect. But I do think with time, comes growth — for anyone — and growth is what should be respected. For me, numbers of years in this city has little to do with it but it does correlate often with other aspects that are deserving of respect. I do not think fledges should be knocked down for trying new things, binding, being sired, etc. I think there’s a long history of new folks perhaps writing a check their ass can’t cash, and that has led to blanket opinions. If someone’s rude, knock them down. Not because of their age in this city, but their actions. But I don’t think new folks should be inherently treated “equally.” As Vex said, equity over equality. They should be treated fairly, and it’s not fair to expect the same demands of someone who stumbled on this city last year as someone who runs a family/clan/organization/has 15 years experience/etc.

[Joy]

It looked like only Amari would be holding down all the opposition to popular opinion on this topic...but reinforcements have arrived.

I had personally started on the fence about it, leaning towards thinking they needed to have kid gloves. After listening to everyone I've actually come around to side with team 'treat them the same'.

A lot of people echoed that a new person who acts out should be checked and I agree, but that's true for everyone in the city. The only special treatment a newer vampire/citizen should be getting is an opening across the board for helping them when they need it to grow. Now, not to blast too much sunshine out of my anus, but I don't think that should be different for the rest of us either. Not that we all need to hold hands with EVERYONE, but don't we already agree to do that within, at least, our own small groups?

Maybe, if anything, inexperienced immortals should get a grace period for saying things like 'how do I find a shop' or 'what does a holy water do'? I personally wouldn't hold not knowing simple things against long time dwellers, but I know that's a line for many. Even people who have been around a long while may have only been bar dwellers or anti-social feeders, however, so them coming around after five years to kick themselves in gear shouldn't be met with hostility. In LPK's opinion, it makes someone a newb anyhow to be here, but not present for such an extended time as to not know anything. I'm on the fence about that across the board, but do agree in the specific case mentioned.

And that's my two cents.


SIDE BAR: Only two days left for debates on this topic. If you've been reading and have an opinion, but are too shy to say it with your own mouth we do have a way to submit them namelessly: HERE!

[ophelia]

There is a long history of newcomers writing checks their ass can't cash, to steal Ezra's phrasing. That in turn led to a lot of contempt for newcomers though I'd like to think we've moved past that sort of behavior. Should they be treated the same as someone that's been here eleventy million years - no. Should they be treated fairly and respectfully until otherwise warranted. Absolutely.

[Quade]

Should they be able to freely start new ventures, own/run establishments, start clans, marry/date fully powered elders, marry/date their teachers, partake in combat?

yes. i cud move 2 n e other city in litrly the fuckin wrld n do these things y shudnt i or n e 1 b allowed to do it here?


for these things:

new ventures
own/run establishments
start a clan

ur sucess is cmpltly tied 2 how others c u

for this:

marry/date

ur sucess is cmpltly tied 2 u n da ppl u decide 2 marry/date

for this:
partake in combat

ur sucess is cmpltly tied 2 u n da work u put in



ppl frm all walks of life can and shud b allowed to do all of this shit. ppl can then decide if they wanna join these ventures go to these establishments n join these clans.

[Damia]

Should newer citizens, lacking in powers and city experience, be treated the same as any elders?

Yes, No and Maybe.

As in treat them like an adult, fuck status and move the fuck on from rank bullshit. If they act like shit humans who don't want to learn how to become better at food and money, then treat them like the toddlers they want to be treated as.

If they want to learn, have ideas, and don't want be that one homeless immortal on the street. Then help or try to stifle and see them kick your ass out the ballpark. Because the ones who want to learn and have ideas, will always succeed. No matter which hand helps them.

The debate doesn’t rest in personhood, but rather where do they fit in appropriately. Should they be able to freely start new ventures, own/run establishments, start clans, marry/date fully powered elders, marry/date their teachers, partake in combat? Should there be a line, should there be exclusion and, if so, in what way?

What is this rome? Do we still have the Aristocrats and the gladiators/slaves? Thought we grew the fuck out of that and got wisdom. Rather then risking pesky limb tearing.

Love is love and fucking fleeting sometimes. Even moreso it seems for our kind. So who the hell has time for status.

Teacher/student love can be a squicky subject. Depends on the relationship. We're immortals so age tends to be a long road. Caution might be needed, but who the hell knows. Could be true blue.

Combat is for everybody. Nuff said.

Businesses are for everybody. x2 Even in failure we can all learn lessons.

Fuck knows I have.

[Joy]

Alright well, we're a day late and a poll short, but I've hastily put up a poll once before and would rather be late than repeat it. Here are the poll options for your approval:



Should newer citizens, lacking in powers and city experience, be treated the same as any elders?

1) Yes, they should be treated the same across the board.

2) Yes, they should be treated the same, but with some reservations.

3) No, they need some kid gloves and circumscriptions.

4) No, never. They lack the ability to be equal with an established elder in anyway until they are fully trained and/or powered.



Look right, seem good, represents all of the opinions portrayed by our city's master debaters? Your silence will be taken as approval! Speak now or forever hold your peace.

[Vex]

I thought that said circumcisions and was very worried, but otherwise looks good!