I assure you, I didn't miss a thing, Alessio. This is just how it's sounding to an outsider.Alex Ayres wrote: So I specifically say that no one should have to bend their character's perspective. I also specifically say that "asking for permission" may have been the wrong way to phrase it, and what I actually mean is "have a conversation." I've said and written a lot so I can understand that you may have missed that.
I see what you're saying, and I see what everyone else is saying.
I've read this entire thread—yes, even everything you wrote, whether I wanted to, or not.
That 'rule' is pointless and policing writing to the point where it is crossing in itself and is damaging/oppressing the writing community, too—which, as far as I know, writing is what brings this community together now.
Having an OOC discussion to move plot is one thing.
Having an OOC discussion because you (OOC) don't like something that a character (IC) is writing with that character's (IC) writer (OOC) so you two can come to a different compromise, a different outcome IS bending that character's perspective and bleeds into crossing, all so it can suit your own needs.
It's policing. It's censoring. It's crossing.
Anyone can see that clearly, so I hope you're not missing that.
I wouldn't say it's role playing because those types of conversations are, SHOULD be, strictly OOC, I'd leave it as just calling it a discussion as to not blur those OOC and IC lines, because role playing is strictly IC. Which, is fine, dandy, having a discussion about plot, that is. I don't know what kind of group you're interacting with, it sounds like a lot of crossing goes on in it, but the majority of people I write with here are all about things happening organically.
Having a conversatioin about a plot point, story line, is not crossing. It's role playing, in my opinion. It's not uncommon for two writers to sit down and discuss how their characters will meet, or interact. I personally am not a fan of this, I prefer to have characters meet organically, but I actually believe I'm in the minority in that. People regularly discuss plot points, be they positive or negative.
But, people do discuss plot points, positive, or negative. Mutually. Which is all fine, great, plan, or have it organic. Write. You do you, just don't cross. However,
That won't stop anyone. Ever.Making the rule of discussing negative plot points in your character's Solo RP and Journals will stop people from using the Solo RP and Journals in malicious ways because people who are using the Solo RPs and Journals in malicious ways aren't going to talk to their targets first and ask permission to be malicious to them.
They're going to write whatever they want. Which, is fine.
People can, will, and should write whatever they want, as long as there is no crossing and follows the rules already in place.
If there is crossing, report it to an Admin, hand over the definite proof, learn your lessons and move passed it.
If you're already having a discussion for plot, then this rule is redundant in reaching out to them if you already have to make a plot, sure, agreed.The rule doesn't stop someone from posting something negative. It just puts the onus on them to reach out and have a conversation before they do. If you're posting something as a plot point or to further a storyline in your character's narrative, and aren't using the journal to hurt someone OOC, then this won't be an issue for you. And if you're not comfortable talking to a player before writing something negative about their character, then I would question what your intentions are in writing that negative thing, and maybe you are crossing without realizing and probably shouldn't post it, anyway.
The rule won't stop them and it won't cause them to reach out, either, though. If anything, it'll make the person not want to write anything.
Saying 'you can write this negative thing BUT FIRST REACH OUT' is having to ask permission, policing, it's censoring, and yes it's crossing because you take OOC issue with an IC thing and now that person (OOC) has to warp their character's (IC) perspective to either change it, or not do it at all.
People can, will, and should write whatever they want as long as there is no crossing and follows the rules already in place.
Then the rule is entirely pointless to have?But either way, after a discussion with the player, you are still free to post the negative thing, even if they'd rather you didn't.
Sure, it'll bring attention to the writer (OOC) that you (OOC) have a problem with what their character (IC) is saying about your character (IC), which, honestly, just shows that you're inserting your (OOC) feelings where they don't belong and trying to impose them onto someone else (OOC) in hopes that they might re-consider changing their character's (IC) view to have your character in a better light.
Your (general) character is going to be shat on no matter what. Truth. Lies. Made up entirely. Whatever.
It should not affect you OOCly. If it does? You need to take a step back.
If you're already having an OOC discussion for an IC plot, then this rule is not needed, at all, sure.This is to make allowances for the things discussed earlier in the conversation.
If you didn't have an OOC discussion beforehand, and have this rule in place, then you're saying that they need to ask permission ("""have a conversation""") before they're allowed to post the agreed upon text.
Stop.
People can, will, and should write whatever they want as long as there is no crossing and follows the rules already in place.
Exactly.We are not our characters.
That first sentence (second, technically since I split it) is crossing.Someone may not want someone else to post something because they are personally hurt by the thing the character is about to say about their character, even if it's a legitimate thing that happened. To me, that's on that specific player. "I don't want your character to say that because it hurts my feelings" isn't a valid reason to not have something posted. But, I still think the person who is doing the posting should know that before posting it.
Listen, everyone who is still reading, if you're writing with people who OOCly get hurt over an IC thing that an IC character is ICly saying/writing, then you should bring it to that person's attention and remove yourself from them. That person needs to take a big step back until they can fully separate. It's not going to matter if that person doing the posting knows, or not. It is not an OOC attack on you (OOC). You (OOC) are not your character (IC). Don't let something so pointless offend you.
It sounds like you're hanging out with the wrong part of the community if there's that attitude and a lot of crossing going on.The culture and mentality of the community generally encourages people to think that the person behind the character doesn't exist at all. And there is someone behind that character. And if your character is about to include them in their narrative, it is worth discussing the role play with the other player first, for all of the reasons listed above.
If that character (IC) is about to include that person (OOC) in their narrative then it's crossing and needs to be reported.
If you're saying that character (IC) is about to include your character (IC) in their narrative, then no? It's fair game in the journals (because this is what the original post was about) As long as there is no crossing, it's fine.
This community is fractured, yes.I think someone on here already talked about how they went to an admin about it and they weren't helped at all.Eli Hartley wrote: ↑Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:41 amThis boils down to Crossing and Reporting Crossing.
Help the Admin by reporting so they can, in turn, help you.
Plain and simple.
And while that is, in a perfect world, the perfect solution, this isn't a perfect world. In fact, this RP community is severely fractured. The current environment of the community discourages people from coming forward. We can all say "come forward" as much as we want, but if we are not acting like people who want people to come forward, then they aren't going to come forward.
In fact, someone talked to me yesterday and quoted where I said "In fact, I think this very thread proves them right" when talking about how the community doesn't make it easy for people to come forward and their response was "sure does".
There will always be problems here, and anywhere else you go.
But posts like this, Alessio, just aren't helping. You're policing and suggesting censoring to a writing community because there are people who are OOCly hurt over IC things. If there's crossing involved, it needs to be reported. That's the only way anything can move forward.
It sounds like there's a lot of crossing and toxicity in your circle. But, while it's taken a long time, the majority of this community encourages people who have been wronged to come forward so they can get help.
Tex (bless you) has even repeatedly offered help—you just have to report it.
I don't know what you, or that 'victim', are expecting, but nothing can be done to help if you don't reach out to a community that IS WELCOMING AND ENCOURAGING TO HELP.
There are neutral people on Ab's staff.In order for people to report things to admins, they have to feel comfortable doing so. While I think some people are comfortable doing that, I think most aren't and suffer in silence, because that is the culture of this community.
I can't stress enough that just saying "come forward" is actually a detrimental solution when the community you are saying it to generally does not feel comfortable coming forward. If you want people to come forward, you have to create the open and receptive community that will make people comfortable with coming forward.
There are neutral people to act as a middle man.
People can even ask their friends to go to an Admin for them.
You and your group seem to have a lot of crossing problems, and you don't seem to have a problem talking, why don't they ask you to act as the middle man?
All they have to do is provide the definite proof of foul play, in this case crossing, you can report it to the Admin, then the problem can be looked into.
You can't say 'they aren't comfortable coming forward' when clearly they're coming forward to you. Have them give you the definite proof of foul play, and then you give it to the Admin.
If they don't have the proof nothing can be done and they'll have to move passed it. Which isn't a bad thing at all, moving forward. Lessons should be learned to avoid that player and move passed the issue.
Feelings with this can be complicated, sure, but the situation and solution is not.
Stop making something simple so complicated.
