Did This Age Well? - Volume 2

[Seyda]

Did This Age Well? Vol.2

Hello and welcome back! I would like to announce that thanks to the diligence of the lovely nitenurse, I have all the archives from my time as a columnist on the Grimoire, and the submission I'm putting forward today for judgment comes from there. Written in June 2008, the St. John Guide to Negotiation was one of the most popular columns I ever wrote. And considering the absolute shit show that occurred on the battlefield right before my wife and I returned, I think this is a most fitting and timely submission. So, without further adieu:

St John Guide to Negotiation

Okay, picture it. You're in a war and the bodies are piling up. You haven't managed to
pull a kill for your side yet, and your resources are drained. The leaders of your
entire alliance were all just zeroed, and you're left holding the bag. What do you do?
Since there are a lot of dissenting views as far as how operations should go to end a
conflict, I've decided to take these things and put it all together in a nice pretty
manual for those of you Seconds who have been tossed into the fray and have no
clue how to work on your behalf. Considering that I've sat in on numerous of these
over my time here in the city, I feel like I'm the PERFECT expert to deliver to you...

The St. John Guide to Negotiation.

Shall we begin? Okay!

The first thing that any vampire should keep in mind regarding war negotiations is
that you need to be clear what the situation is. Is this two groups squaring off who
have taken comparable amounts of damage from the other side and both are coming
to the table together to try to end things? Or was this conflict the equivalent of a
one legged man in an ass kicking contest? If you're part of the former, then you
would obviously meet each other with some modicum of respect. If it's the latter,
and you're the one legged man, you'd better get your lips ready.

Once you've figured out what situation you're in, keep these next several steps in
mind when moving through the negotiation process:

1. Ghosts don't count. If your leaders have been zeroed, them showing up to attempt
to stop anything will be met with laughter from the group who just put them in that
position. So stop being careless and name your hierarchy, so your members know who
is next in command, and that person knows what they should be doing. Not doing
that is doing your group a huge disservice.

2. If you're the group asking for it to be over, then YOU are the one giving. Contrary
to the term, this will not be a negotiation. If you're dying and you're wanting it over,
you don't get demands. You don't get terms. You get whatever the other party is
willing to give, and you take it happily to save your skin, or you man up and die. Your
side of the negotiation will always be "...and my people won't die." Allow me to
repeat this in simpler terms: IF YOU ARE THE ONE ASKING FOR IT TO BE OVER, YOU
DO NOT GET TO DEMAND ANYTHING.

3. When you enter these talks, expect the side who is winning to be completely hard
nosed and even arrogant. Why? They've deserved it by stomping a mudhole in the ass of
the other side. The side who has the mudhole? Do not even attempt to match this
attitude, or you'll keep dying. To summarize: IF YOU'RE KICKING ASS, YOU GET TO BE
A BITCH. IF YOU'RE LOSING, YOU GET TO BE THE BITCH.

4. Next, if you're the group asking for the conflict to be over, you cannot be wishy
washy or you will lose your ability to come to the table. Saying you want the conflict
over and you are willing to talk, then deciding the next day that you don't will make
the other side laugh at you when you change your mind yet again. If you really don't
want the conflict to end, or if you're not willing to bend (which you should be, since
you're the ones losing), then do not ask for it to be over to begin with. Get your
people together and go down swinging and with honor. Otherwise, you look like a
giant pile of pussy who cannot make a decision. BE FIRM IN WHAT YOU ARE WILLING
TO DO BEFORE YOU START TALKING.

5. Just because you say "Okay, it's over, we concede," doesn't mean that it's actually
over, and to think that this works is just ridiculous. Face it, you're getting your ass
kicked. Making a one line comment on a newspaper just isn't going to get it done.
Man up and seek out the other leaders and discover what they want for it to be over.
If you get the ability to make your own package then great, but don't make it
insulting, either. Keep in mind, YOU were the one who asked for it to be over...not
them. They'd have no problem continuing to stomp you into the ground. YOU WILL
HAVE TO DO SOMETHING IN ORDER FOR THE CONFLICT TO BE OVER. WAVING YOUR
HAND AND SAYING "KAY, WE'RE DONE," WILL NOT SUFFICE.

6. Another thing to keep in mind is that if the lives of your clan members and
alliance are on the line, then it's a serious matter. Treating it as if it's Blue Collar
Comedy Hour will only serve to annoy the other side...you know, the group who
didn't ask for a talk. If you cannot be serious for the time it takes to talk, then you
are projecting the image that your people are a joke. And you should always,
ALWAYS, put your people first. IF LIVES ARE ON THE LINE, DON'T TREAT THE TALKS AS
A JOKE. AS A LEADER, YOUR PEOPLE COME FIRST, NOT YOU.

7. Another thing that is not a good idea is being rude and insulting to the other side.
Let's level for a second...if your side is the one dying, and you're the one who is
wanting it to stop, and the other side has more than enough resources to kill you all,
then being rude and insulting to the other is probably the silliest move you can
make. Do your homework. Every leader in the city has a set of values they hold dear
to them no matter what alignment they are. If you want the conflict to end, it would
be wise to not stomp those values in talks in jest or in seriousness. INSULTING THE
OPPOSING LEADER AND BEING RUDE IS THE EQUIVALENT OF SIGNING YOUR DEATH
WARRANT.

8. Also, take into account what the demands of the winning side are. If you're
getting away with a few apologies and a public concession, consider yourself lucky.
In the past, demands have ranged from coin payoffs to a certain members' head on a
pike. Ending things with words alone is by far the easiest way to get out of it. PULL
YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND DETERMINE WHETHER THE DEMANDS ARE REALLY
UNREASONABLE, OR IF ITS YOUR EGO THAT THINKS THEY ARE. IF IT'S THE FORMER,
DENY THEM AND GO OUT SWINGING...IF IT'S THE LATTER, PUT YOUR EGO ASIDE FOR
THE GOOD OF YOUR PEOPLE FOR ONCE AND GET IT DONE.

Using these tips, hopefully you will be well on your way to getting yourself out of a
jam.

So...you've stopped the conflict. Now what?

Well, if you were in the position of the one legged man, then it's very simple. Put a
gag order on all your members from speaking publically for several months, and do a
full assessment of your clan and your procedures. Obviously, if you got your behind
handed to you in such a heavy fashion, something just isn't working. Figure out what
that is and fix it. Otherwise, it won't take long for you to end up back in the position
you were just in: Begging for mercy at the feet of yet another enemy.

If I've missed something, please let me know and if I agree ( ), then I'll include it in
this manual....

As always, I tell the truth so you don't have to...not like you planned on it anyway.

~S~

By Seyda at 2008-06-23 10:59 | Ravenblack | Seyda Unleashed | Columns | login to
post comments | 571 reads

***

And my 2024 thoughts:

1 - Although this was originally written for clan leaders, I believe it can also apply to warring lineages. And frankly, I'm standing TEN TOES DOWN on this one.

2 - Wish me luck for when I tell Annabelle that the tag line for Seyda Unleashed was throwing shade at the Temple of Lies.


Now it's time for you to decide. One a scale of spoiled milk (1) to fine wine (10) how well did this story age? Hit me in the comments and let me know. Don't forget to drag me to filth if you think I deserve it!

[Everly]

Solid 8 for sure, I think it's all pretty relevant and I'd love to see a discussion in the Angelarium regarding negotiations, standard warring procedures, and typical concessions one might be expected to make.

The only thing I really don't think is relevant is deferring negotiations to someone who hasn't been zeroed. Being bloodless doesn't limit our ability to speak or negotiate and I feel like sending in someone who might not have as much political experience as the leader might just lead to more disaster. And if anything, it's more humbling to have to drag your bloodless body to a negotiating table.

[Vanitas]

Wonderfully put. This would make an excellent lesson.

[Vex]

Wonderful article and I’m giving it a 10 for relevance.

The only thing I really don't think is relevant is deferring negotiations to someone who hasn't been zeroed. Being bloodless doesn't limit our ability to speak or negotiate and I feel like sending in someone who might not have as much political experience as the leader might just lead to more disaster. And if anything, it's more humbling to have to drag your bloodless body to a negotiating table.

This depends on the terms negotiated by both parties. Resters still exist and it’s quite possible, though a bit less likely, that this situation still crops up.

[Oberon]

I really like this one, and agree with all of the above, frankly. I don't have much to add, other than a lot of people would benefit of reading this and internalizing its lesson.

[Malice]

This all tracks to me. Seems like a pretty logical approach with realistic expectations. As valid then as it is today.

[Alex Ayres]

10. I mean it seems like you were very relevant then, and are equally relevant now, and you wrote this piece then and based on your 2024 thoughts, still agree. So relevant content from a relevant person, then and now.

Also as an aside, I appreciate the continuity of “voice” in your journalistic writing from 2008 and 2024.