Consensus Gentium Debate: What is fully powered now?

[Joy]

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Consensus Gentium is to decide on what is true or right based on a general agreement among the masses.

That will be the goal of this section: weighing over and wrestling with various topics until a general conclusion can be reasonably drawn by a majority.

When a question/topic is put forth to discuss* it will be open for ten days of debate before closing. Once closed there will be a three day voting period to determine the consensus gentium.

While readers are encouraged to participate in the comments section below, we will also be allowing for anonymous discussion**. Opinions submitted anonymously will be posted by staff as such in order to add them to the conversation. Voting will be submitted privately, with results posted publicly. Any topic/question put forth will be shelved for 6 months once it is decided on after which it can be resubmitted for debate again.


*If you would like to suggest a topic/question for discussion you can do so here: THE PLACE
**If you would like to submit an opinion for discussion you can do so here: THE OTHER PLACE

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So with the fine print out of the way again, I'm very happy to put forth another topic that was peer submitted. Liander, a regular now in CG debates has brought us our next topic to mull over:

What is fully powered now?

This is been a big year for our city as far as power training goes. It's almost as if the guilds are under new management that's hungry for renewed activity. I know I've been pumped! A full list of powers our guilds currently offer goes as follows:

• Second-sight
• Suction - 2 Levels of mastery available
• Surprise
• Perception -2 Levels of mastery available
• Thrift - 3 Levels of mastery available
• Celerity - 3 Levels of mastery available
• Stamina - 3 Levels of mastery available
• Shadows - 3 Levels of mastery available
• Thievery - 3 Levels of mastery available
• Locate - 3 Levels of mastery available
• Telepathy - 3 Levels of mastery available
• Charisma - 3 Levels of mastery available
• Neutrality - 3 Levels of mastery available
• BattleCloak

An argument can be made for more than a few of these being vanity powers rather than essential. An argument can be made that you haven't come into your full power if you haven't mastered everything. Heck, some of these powers get in the way of other powers and abilities on the list! If you've got thoughts on the matter, now is the time to speak on it! Every opinion counts here.

[Aziza]

Without Suction 2, Perception 2, Thrift, and Locate 3, I believe a person is still fully powered.

Suction 2 is great if you care that much about blood.

Perception is great if you want to waste time wandering around using Locate 1 for hunters, but most people don't -need- it.

Thrift is not a necessity, it's a convenience for those that use lots of items. And even then, it's a small one.

And Locate 3 has never been a necessity. Locate 2 has proven to be most useful in my experience.

If Perception 2 was more like Locate 2, or if there were a third level of Perception that made it like Locate 2, then I feel it would be more of a required power because it would be a thousand times more useful.

All these new powers are nice and shiny, but in my opinion, all the most useful ones have already been in existence and forcing new powers on those that have been here before they were implemented just to consider them fully-powered all over again is a bit presumptuous. I have Gizmo in my family who lives her life without even Thievery and Shadows and is very well off, proving that even those are not exactly necessary, but they were considered to be part of the fully-powered group of powers before she was here, so she can never be considered fully-powered except by her family. Which, on the plus side, doesn't bother her one bit.

I suppose it comes down to what the individual considers for themselves to be fully powered or not, but specifically in the case of an overall consistency, my suggestion is for it to remain the same:

Second-sight
Suction(1)
Surprise
Perception(1)
Celerity(3)
Stamina(3)
Shadows(3)
Thievery(3)
Locate(2)
Telepathy(3)
Charisma(3)

That's one woman's opinion, anyway.

[drew]

I'm so glad this is being discussed. I'll weigh in more when I have more than a few minutes.

[drew]

Okay, now that I have time and have had my 'morning' tea...

These are the powers/abilities you have listed, Joy.

Second-sight
Suction - 2 Levels of mastery available
Surprise
Perception -2 Levels of mastery available
Thrift - 3 Levels of mastery available
Celerity - 3 Levels of mastery available
Stamina - 3 Levels of mastery available
Shadows - 3 Levels of mastery available
Thievery - 3 Levels of mastery available
Locate - 3 Levels of mastery available
Telepathy - 3 Levels of mastery available
Charisma - 3 Levels of mastery available
Neutrality - 3 Levels of mastery available
BattleCloak

I would toss out BattleCloak and Neutrality from that list pronto. If mine want to get either of them, fine, but I don't ever consider that a main staple for any of mine to have.

I only have the two levels of Thrift I have now because I have this underlying urge to collect all things out there to say I have them. But I don't use enough (at this time) items to probably see any real return. I would not require any of mine to have to get this ability at any level unless our outlook on things change as well as how many vials and scrolls we go through.

Perception 2 I'm on the fence about. I would not care personally if mine had it, however I do think it has its benefits if you're blood thirsty and looking to make good coin. It would not be the more pressing of abilities of mine to have off the bat, but I would consider it in the group of need to have to be fully powered. Personally, anything that helps get hunters and such off our backs is only a plus and essential. They are kind of one of our enemies. *shrug*

The others absolutely needed to be fully powered in my mind. I agree with the idea everything else I've not talked about was all maybe all we ever needed, with the exception of suction two. Give me all that glorious blood. Nom Nom.

TL: DR;

Thrift no. Perception 2, yes, eventually. All others, yes. The exception being the cloaks/neutrality.

[AdaMaS]

I think if you want to go by text-book definition, 'Fully-Powered', you have all the powers. Now if the debate were over does 'Fully-Powered' actually mean anything? There are a multitude of tasks and power-levels required to do particular things. Different power-levels for finding specific shops, for tracking efficiently, and so forth. Some of those guild-offered talents are moot after-math at attempts to remedy past debates, such as the ever-ancient Torpor vs Non-Rest. Thank the gods we seem to have moved past that seemingly unending debate. My honest opinion, the real question is 'Does Fully-Powered mean anything at all, or even really matter?' And I would say 'No'. They are gifts to be utilized to our particular needs.

[Whitefang]

As has been previously mentioned, I believe that fully powered means just that. You have every power available.

Whilst some powers such as suction2, perception 2, and thrift may not be required for everyday life, what happens when we hit the next big war. Then these 'non essentials' become a major advantage, especially against someone who does not have them.

Gaining blood becomes twice as fast. Collecting coin from the use of perception 2; again, alot faster and more effecient than those without. Thrift! With level 3, you acquire a skill that gives you 30% chance of not losing an item once used. How many weapons per vampire, are used in an average war? The scrolls, sprints, holywaters, displacements, turns. 100? 200? More? That is potentially 60 vials saved for a later use.

Those kinds of numbers are staggering and the financial benefits, depending on what this power chooses to save, could be monumental. Think if it saved you a Blood potion!

It is understandable to feel these are not essential at a time of 'peace'. (Read: no city wide skirmish's currently ongoing) But we are blood thirsty vampires and I think there has yet to be a year in our glorious city where blood has not been spilt.

Are people going to cry foul if they are caught in the battlefield without these advantages? Similarly to how people defending those who were not seen as traditionally fully powered? Will the community feel a need to step up and protect those who have either chosen not to have these powers, or have not yet managed to acquire them?

As I see it, they are there to be used and utilised so why would you not want to reap the benefits? I might not use locate every day, but it is a damn handy little power to have around.

My personal opinion remains that to claim the title of fully powered, a person needs to have all of those available powers.

[Ezra]

Not me. All these new powers have dropped me back to fledgling underpowered status. WHO AM I?!

Just kidding. I think in these newer times with newer powers, fully powered can mean either all of them (sans Neutrality/Battle Cloak), or the powers that existed a year ago and for many years before that. They’re new. It’ll take some time for all non-fledge citizens to get on board. Most of these I’ll get to get, like Telepathy, but I really don’t feel any war benefit to them, and generally the powers that matter are those relevant to war.

TBH, I’d probably call someone with every power except Telepathy FP’d, too. It’s a dumb power.

[Yawa]

TBH, I’d probably call someone with every power except Telepathy FP’d, too. It’s a dumb power.

You say that, until you're stuck on the loo without your phone and TP.

[Ezra]

TBH, I’d probably call someone with every power except Telepathy FP’d, too. It’s a dumb power.

You say that, until you're stuck on the loo without your phone and TP.

Honestly..... you right.

[Joy]

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::::::: THE MIDWAY RECAP :::::::

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So I went through everyone's thoughts and plucked out votes in favor of each power. As far as I could see it shakes out like so:

Second-sight Suction 1 Suction 2 Surprise Perception 1 Perception 2 Thrift 1 Thrift 2 Thrift 3 Celerity 1 Celerity 2 Celerity 3 Stamina 1 Stamina 2 Stamina 3 Shadows 1 Shadows 2 Shadows 3 Thievery 1 Thievery 2 Thievery 3 Locate 1 Locate 2 Locate 3 Telepathy 1 Telepathy 2 Telepathy 3 Charisma 1 Charisma 2 Charisma 3

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What I'm gathering here is for some Fully Powered is Fully powered and for other's it's graded on a curve. See above for how curvy the curve is by power.

The first opinion seems pretty cut and dry; To become fully-fully powered you've got to go through all the ringers and gather all the bells and whistles our city guilds offer. Fully powered isn't about liking all the powers or needing all the powers, but rather about doing the work because it's available.

When it comes to what fully powered looks like with special exceptions, that's where it gets muddled. The majority of the voices here point to Thrift and Perception 2 being the most useless powers. Over telepathy? Alright, I guess. Maybe Fangeh hits the nail on the head when she notes that the most unfavorable powers are the newest ones, or rather, the least time tested ones. If we're calling it early on these powers lets look at WHY we're saying they're not important.

Thrift: It's a convenience for those that use lots of items, but a small one.

Suction 2: You don't need that much blood.

Perception 2: You waste time wandering around.

As for the older powers, Telepathy does see some shade and even Locate 3! That last one blows my mind, I have to admit. You're okay with only knowing the direction someone is from you Aziza? What if you want to give them a flower or shower? I don't think Locate 3 can be sneezed at, personally, but I'd like to hear more cuz your other opinions gave me a little shake.

Are there more opinions about these non-essentials? It's a long established consensus gentium that neutrality and battlecloak are not must haves because they restrict rather than aid. I only mentioned them because they exist. However, if we're going to come together and put other powers with actual perks in that same category of 'passable powers', lets dig deeper. What is making the final cut and what's getting left on the cutting room floor?

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