Something's Gotta Give

[Anders]

I spoke up when the tone of multiple people started to drift away from the issues and the topic at hand in an effort to keep things focused (which I can see clearly now was pure idealism on my part). I saw no dig at you, at least one that I could recognize as such.

It is not a discussion centered around singing kumbayah. It’s a discussion centered around being better than the colors this city has shown in the last several years, every single one of us. It’s about the work that is required to be better people individually, but also over-all.

[Dea]

Well said, Seyda.

Apologies are a process. Saying the words validates recognition that you’ve played a part in the deterioration of a relationship or situation. I’m not sure anyone who genuinely means their apology expects to be absolved of all guilt or thinks that words are enough to take away the pain they’ve caused. You are still guilty. You did do that thing once. It does not mean you rebuild a bridge, it does not mean you become besties or even that you acknowledge each other ever again. It’s step one toward change in yourself to see that you’ve done wrong and intend not to make the same mistakes again.

It says “hey, I fucked up. I know I fucked up. It was okay for you to feel the way you did and I see that now.”

It opens a door for healing- whether people choose to walk through that door together or separately is up to them individually.

Forgiveness is a separate issue. I’ve chosen, personally, to forgive sans apology because I do not want to harbor negativity any longer. I do that for myself, not for anyone else just as I’ve apologized to people for myself and not anyone else. I am the only one in control of how I feel and my reactions to actions.

[Alex Ayres]

An apology doesn't mean anything if you don't improve upon the person you are, or if you continue to do the thing you're apologizing for.


And, honestly, if you're going to skip any step in the process, skip the apologizing part. We could all not apologize for anything we did in the past, but move forward and never do that thing again to anyone, and the city would still be a better place.


Also, just another point: You don't need an apology to forgive someone. And you don't have to be friends with someone you forgive. You can forgive someone for your own inner peace and be civil with them, instead of holding a vial with their name on it on your mantle piece for 3 years while you get 45 stomach ulcers from your anger and anxiety over the situation.


To conclude, we could not issue a single apology if we don't want, and the city would still get better:

Step 1. Think about all of the things you need to apologize for, and instead, don't do that shit anymore going forward.
Step 2. Forgive everyone. Don't wait for an apology. Don't let pride or your misguided sense that because you were wronged, you need to wrong them twice as bad dictate your actions. Let forgiveness dictate your actions. Smile at people. Wave. Be kind.
Step 3. Stop assuming things. People read shit or hear shit and automatically think that what was said was about them. Instead of flaring up in anger and throwing vials or talking shit or saying some mean shit back, just privately message that person or privately talk to them and say "hey...I read this in the papers/heard you say this in the tavern. It seemed to me like you were saying that to me directly/you were insulting me. Is that what it was?" and then hear them out.


But, if you plan on being friends with that person or those group of people again, yes, a heartfelt apology is probably necessary.



On a personal note:

"Don't let...your misguided sense that because you were wronged, you need to wrong them twice as bad dictate your actions."


This part is the hardest part for me. Most of the insult I've levied have been because someone has wronged or insulted me, a loved one, or a group of people that I personally identify with, and I was getting them back for it.

I'm working on it.


"Step 3. Stop assuming things. People read shit or hear shit and automatically think that what was said was about them. Instead of flaring up in anger and throwing vials or talking shit or saying some mean shit back, just privately message that person or privately talk to them and say "hey...I read this in the papers/heard you say this in the tavern. It seemed to me like you were saying that to me directly/you were insulting me. Is that what it was?" and then hear them out."


I LITERALLY like three days ago fucked this one up. I realized it and then asked the person, but still said something mean spirited before I talked to them privately about it. But hey. Baby steps.



ETA: I probably should not have taken 3 hours to write this (but 13 Reasons Why is sooooooooooooo good....) and I probably should have read what Dea said first as well. My bad.

[Ryukotsusei]

Point 5

Seyda makes a pretty good point with this one. Some people have pushed me to the point I can no longer associate with them, or trust the sincerity of their apologies. I also know I've done the same to others.

But it's about time someone apologised for the Court. Good on you Vex

I just want to point out that we're functionally immortal, or at least the majority are. It means (unless they leave) we're all going to have to put up with people we don't like for a very long time, whether in the papers or in the tavern or various houses and events. Instead of hating someone because it's easy, why don't you actually try to get to know them?

[Gypsy]

Vex, I'm proud of ya and Seyda I couldn't agree more on points 2 thru the last.

Alex pointed out something no one else did....you can forgive without being asked and forgiving is for you....not the person who hurt you.

Saying sorry is the easy part, changing your ways is what makes it real. If you think saying sorry without making life changes is going to make it all better....don't. They will see through you.

[JessieLove]

There's a list of people I wish to apologize to and never have. I think the thing that's stopping me is simply fear. Fear that I'll be rejected, fear that I'll make it worse. No one ever thinks I'm being genuine and I know that's because I never used to be. I spent the first few years in this city bullshitting my way through it. I made mistakes and Vex your courage here is inspiring. I have a whole new respect for you because of this. I think I'll heed your words and try to channel some of your courage so I can hopefully do the right thing in the future.

[Batrisha]

Vex. This took balls, ya did it, gold star. This wasn't just an off-handed apology like when a child hits another and gets told to say an empty 'sorry', no, it sounds genuine and from the heart.

Airey - You're in fucking trouble with me...
Stop making me gigglesnort. I love you. You bloody babe. Keep speaking your mind because most the time you make the most sense.

[Rubi]

Both Anders and Ryu are right, we should (all) try to be less grudge-y and less "you did this 5 years ago and we still want your head on this stick". For the most part, y'all are immortal and to spend every day, 365 days a year, however many years y'all are gonna live for.. hating everyone else? Eventually the reason will probably be forgotten and you'll just be hating for the sake of hating. Which when you think about it, is kinda dumb.

With that in mind, Vex we'd like to apologise to you for being a continual disrespectful person in the past. We might not agree with stuff you do, but that doesn't justify our being outright rude about it.

Daly, we want to apologise for the name calling, there was and is no valid reason for it, we were angry but that still doesn't make it okay to use such language. We are painfully aware of how wrong it is and will not be using it again. We already made amends with Airey over it and we hope the same can be done with yourself.

Anders, Ezra, Gypsy... We tarred y'all with the same brush just for being around Vex, guilty by association is no way to treat anyone and we thoroughly apologise for that the most. You're all individual people, not one giant entity so if it's alright with each of you. We'd like to take some time to get to know y'all individually. To make sure the "tarring" with the big brush won't happen again.

[Gypsy]

Anders, Ezra, Gypsy... We tarred y'all with the same brush just for being around Vex, guilty by association is no way to treat anyone and we thoroughly apologise for that the most. You're all individual people, not one giant entity so if it's alright with each of you. We'd like to take some time to get to know y'all individually. To make sure the "tarring" with the big brush won't happen again.

I'm really glad you finally realized this and I accept your apology. Just because some is sired or bound to someone doesn't mean that they always agree with everything. It's best to judge a book by it's own cover rather than someone elses. I'm glad to see you and Jessie stepping up like this.

[Damia]

You fuck up once? There goes your shot at ever making nice with the Joneses.

This island of a city isn’t getting any bigger anytime soon. A lot of us have done wrong to others within this place, and yet pride has always gotten in the way of actually hashing things out. It’s easy to sit in our own camps and let old wounds fester.

You had many wise words in your post, but these shine for me. I remember when I was a youngling and knew others who felt exactly what you have described there. I'm sure I myself felt that way at some point. One mistake and you can end up costing yourself a lot in this city it seems. I have had several wonderful childre over the years, who could and have been described as "troublemakers" but were in fact a loyal and delightful addition to my family. In fact I miss several of them dearly. I always thought that in this city of immortals, we tend to be very human in our jumps to judgement and somehow never remember when we ourselves were at fault for being stupid. Goodness knows I have been in that spot a few times myself.

Forgive my long worded thoughts here, but I found your lovely post very thought provoking. Kudo's sir.

Personally, there are some people I will never again trust, and that’s alright. But there’s a difference between distrust and open hostility. I can work with someone I don’t necessarily trust, so long as both parties are willing to put in the effort to make things work. Sometimes, all it takes is reaching out to those you feel have wronged you, or you’ve wronged. An open, honest dialogue is the first step to healing some of those old wounds, and it’s the most difficult step to take.

I think this is something many of us could do to think about and take to heart. Not just reaching out, but being civil during public ceremonies with those you might not necessarily trust again.

I hope others embrace your words and go forward with the key of open dialogue to those they might have issues with. If I see you in one of the many tavern's Vex, please let me buy you a drink for the steps you have taken in standing true to your words.

Also, in reading many of these posts, I feel as if I have missed several dozen incidents in being gone. Alas that is its own headache and Ill save my questions for private moments.

ETA: My apologies for being very late to reply to this. As most know I've been gone. So I am simply trying to catch up and I found this interesting discussion.